THE CITY OF FREDERICK

101 NORTH COURT STREET

FREDERICK, MARYLAND 21701

 

UTILITY COMMITTEE

Minutes

Wednesday, September 8th , 2004, City Hall, room 214

Present:  Alderman Bill Hall, Alderman Donna Ramsburg, Alderman Marcia Hall, Rick Johnson, Randy Connatser, Marc Stachowski, Pat Keegin, Chrisse Hassett, Saundra Nickols, Richard Lind, Paul Lee, Eugene Young, Fred Eisenhart,  Not Present:  Alderman Dave Lenhart 

 

Item 1:  Approval of the minutes from the meeting of August 11th, 2004.

The Minutes were tabled until the meeting of October 13th, 2004.

 

Item 2:  Continued discussion from the meeting of July 14th of a request by Mr. and Mrs. Young of Wayside Radio Service, Inc. for the extension of a storm sewer on East Patrick Street to the Frederick Fairgrounds property.

Mr. Richard Lind explained the construction done in the area of the Wayside Radio property and stated that the cost with contingencies would be $2,800.and that there was money in the Carroll Creek Project budget.  Alderman Bill Hall asked if this would mitigate the flooding.  Mr. Lind stated that it would mitigate the problem due to the flooding not coming from Patrick Street but from the Fairgrounds overlands through the backyards.  Mr. Young stated that this would greatly improve the situation and explained why.  Mr. Paul Lee stated that the long- term solution would be when the upgrades are made with extended sewers on Patrick Street.  Alderman Bill Hall asked if this was a stop- gap measure and Mr. Lee stated that the city will have to submit it as a future CIP project for Patrick Street storm water maintenance.  Mr. Young asked for a time reference.  Mr. Paul Lee stated that ideally they would like to finish this project within 60 days. 

Motion: Alderman Ramsburg moved to take this to the Mayor and Board public meeting if necessary or to complete the project as shown.  Seconded by Marcia Hall.  Vote 3-0 in favor.

  

Item 3: Discussion and consideration of a request by Mountaingate Homeowners Association to review Storm Water Management area located behind Blue Ridge Court.

Ms. Chrisse Hassett from Clagett Management and managing agent for the Maintaingate development HOA and explained that the HOA needed to know where to locate fencing around the storm water pond.  Ms. Hassett wanted information on why they were responsible for the stormwater runoff from another property.  Alderman Hall stated that he was familiar with this area and that the runoff was from apartments above the Mountaingate development.  Ms. Hassett stated that their insurance company required that the HOA fence the stormwater area.  Mr. Richard Lind met with the HOA and explained the corrections that had to be made.  Mr. Lind explained that the stormwater management ordinance states what kind of fence you should have but not where to put it.  Mr. Lind stated that this area had trees that were in the embankment that are in the way.  Mr. Lind also explained the need for a swing free gate to accommodate the debris that collects to prevent a dam from being created. Questions were asked when the water runoff was created and Ms. Hassett explained it was created when the Overlook development was built and there is no documentation. Mr. Randy Connatser stated that he has been working on the Maintaingate area since 1992. Mr. Connatser stated that the drawings and plats are vague but has one plat that says the HOA is completely responsible for all of the open areas and the ponds are in the open areas.  Mr. Connatser stated that over the course of time the Mayor and Board of Alderman signed off on an agreement that said the city would take over responsibility for the storm drains and the parking areas and no mention was ever made to the storm water ponds in which there are two of the them.  Mr. Connatser stated the drawings indicate a swale going to the outlet pipe in the pond and he had never seen that and it was his belief that that it was just a swale with stone in it. During the course of time someone had rerouted part of that swale out of the middle of the pond and built a concrete channel around the perimeter of the bottom of the pond.  The concrete swale is still there. Mr. Connatser stated that he accepted responsibility for the middle swale between the two ponds. Mr. Connatser stated that in 1992 the city cleaned out the swale and the surrounding area.  Mr. Connatser stated that at one time this area was kept up and cleaned up due to this area at one time being a recreation area but through the course of time it has become overgrown and debris has collected.  Mr. Connatser stated that there was still debris in the pipe system that needed to be cleaned out.  Mr. Connatser stated that it is very hard to get equipment in this area and there is not dedicated access to get to this pond and maintenance is very difficult. The only way the city could get to the swale to cleanup is to get the permission from apartment complex and explain the problem.  Discussion continued regarding drainage systems in the city that run from property to property. More discussion continued as to the type of fencing and where it should be located to help alleviate the accumulation of depris.  Ms. Hassett explained the cost to the HOA for the cost of fencing and explained the hardships of this cost.  Alderman Ramsburg stated that the city is in a catch 22 in that if the city takes over the pond in question then the city could be in a position to do this all over the city, not to mention the cost for maintenance done by employees.  Ms. Hassett stated that the HOA would absorb the cost of the fence but they needed to know where the fence would go.  Ms. Hassett stated that the HOA has received other requests from the City to perform maintenance. Alderman Marcia Hall asked if the HOA was objecting to moving the trees in this area.  Ms. Hassett stated that they would work around the pine trees the best way they could.  Mr. Lind pointed out that on his last visit the trees should not be in this area and that this was a dam safety issue.  Mr. Lind stated if the city is going to observe dam safety issues the trees should be removed and explained which trees and the locations of where the best position of the trees should be.  Mr. Lind stated that he found a landscape plan early on in the planning process that shows a basketball court where the pond bottom is shown on the storm water management pond and that the storm water management pond came later. Alderman Bill Hall suggested that staff do further research and come back to a future meeting.  Alderman Marcia Hall stated if the city were to help, and a precedent is going to be set, it would be better to work with the trees then fencing.  Mr. Eisenhart stated that there is a dangerous precedent set when the city maintains private property.  Alderman Ramsburg asked the legal department to investigate whether or not the development was designed and constructed properly to determine whether the runoff should be there.  Alderman Ramsburg also asked the legal department to determine whether or not the city can mitigate this problem without setting a precedent.  Ms. Nickols stated that it should be determined by all of the facts researched by city staff and brought back to committee to distinguish whether there are unique facts to be discussed.  Mr. Rick Johnson stated that the maintenance of this pond is directly related to the drainage situation.  Ms. Hassett would like to meet staff on site.  Alderman Ramsburg asked Ms. Hassett to determine how much it would cost to fence the pond and how much it will cost to remove the trees. 

Motion:  Alderman Ramsburg moved to have staff come back to the next Utility Committee with all of the information on these ponds and the drainage to these ponds and whether they were properly constructed.  Seconded by Alderman Bill Hall – Vote 3-0 in favor.

 

Minutes submitted by Eileen Farrar